During a discussion started by someone about the question what Capitalists and Socialists think of “Distributism” some people started to argue that “Distributism” is part of Catholicism (!), going as far as stating … “Distributism is about widely distributed access to the means of production for all. It is about a society informed heavily by Christian values, probably state religion.” … “It means access to the means of production, and centralized power which is very much in accordance with Catholicism and Christianity in general.”
Summary of conclusions
The below is a bit long(winded) even by the standards here. It boils down to: rejection of idolatry can be used as a standard that people should meet in order to be though to even have a chance to make a success out of the democratic society here proposed. Idolatry seems to be an interesting point to separation, because idolatry makes people politically apathetic, it makes them selfish, and gives them a false sense of satisfaction, it wastes an enormous amount of psychological energy which is needed to solve real problems. The proposal is to put a law against idolatry in the Constitution, with a delay of 100 years after the last part of the Constitution has been ratified. This gives idolatry a period to die down of its own accord as it might see the success of the proposed systems (or not die down if these systems fail), and gives people ample of time to think about what we should do with our Nations in terms of where the borders should be. Prohibition against idolatry has useful historical precedents.
For who is in doubt what this means (because of the habitual lying of the idolater cults changing the meaning of the language): it is meant to destroy the Jesus religion in our Nation(s), and also combat all other forms of idolatry, such as probably Buddhism and Hinduism and all other forms of worshiping idol wielding priesthoods. I am confident that this is going to be potentially the most controversial aspect of this whole affair. Unfortunately for the idolaters, the truth is what it is, and a democratic society cannot be founded on the bases of lies, no particularly matter how much the masses love to live a life based on lies. Don’t want to turn to the truth ? Then don’t bother with a democratic society as here proposed either. Go join the opposition and we will hopefully still be able to be friendly neighbors as different Nations, but we cannot have you as part of the democracy because your political behavior – if too widespread – ruins the system.
With the toughest part out of the way, the below is the reply to a comment which sparked this proposal:
Reply …
It looks like we are using words differently, and that you have almost no knowledge of history. Is this true ? Someone growing up today might take the Catholic church for what it seems to be now: a bunch of people singing in a building with a tower, and a guy in odd clothes waving his arms and trying to sound solemn and serious to impress the crowd. It seems harmless. It may be mostly harmless diversion today, because our forefathers broke the back of that system from hell centuries ago, paying for the fight with their lives and their children’s lives, for many generations. That is how it went in the Netherlands, and generally in the area of the Iconoclasm (1566), where the middle ages was more or less ended, and modern Capitalism started to appear. That started in the Netherlands in some sense, which was inspired from the Swiss and the early Roman Republic.
The Roman Republic should not be confused with the later Roman Empire. These two should be seen as each others mortal enemies. Indeed where Israel had a peace treaty and though well of the Roman Republic (as is recorded in the books of Maccabees), they later only had war with the Roman Empire. The first pope was the Roman Emperor, who created both the Jesus creed in its current form, based on previous Imperial propaganda, and he also created the feudal system. Catholicism and the feudal system are one and the same thing. If the church looks harmless today, that is because there are people willing to die if that system from hell again tries to become the tyranny they once where. I would volunteer right away to fight against them to the death.
You can pontificate to your hearts content what “Distributism” means to you, with or without a level of support from others, but I use the word in its logical form, and not in a form where it may have been usurped by some group and then warped away from its logical root. “Distributing” is the act of giving something to many, of dividing something. As such the word can mean all kinds of things, but it cannot and should not mean the gathering up of something or to centralize it. If the Catholic church has attempted to add the crime of polluting our language even further, that is their choice but not something I am going to go along with. If there is a company who calls their car brand “car” and then they start making bicycles, then bicycles should not suddenly be called “cars” just because they tried to pollute the language with their games. Cars will be cars, and bicycles will be bicycles. Centralization of land ownership and political tyranny will be the opposite of distributing land ownership and political power.
Countries who have a significant Catholic church, will never experience peace and stability. The corruption and closed dogmatic and ignorant minds created by the Catholic system is too much of a cancer. I think we see this in countries like South America, but also in Southern Europe and eastern Europe. Those countries will remain hopeless forever, until they organize their own Iconoclasm and if need be go to war on the Great Fraud that is the Roman Empire.
Direct democracy is essential to do away with the criminal behavior of politicians, however it requires a population that is mature. This maturity is impossible under Catholicism. This leaves one problem … how can we have a free and open society where people can think whatever they want because it is not a tyranny, and still get rid of Catholicism, and entirely of the Jesus fraud system for that matter. I don’t know the answer to that yet. It may come back to another great schism and dividing out into separate Sovereignties, and then just hoping that we can teach the children to have a sense of history and the truth so that these frauds do not enter our Nation again. Otherwise I would even be thinking about outlawing idolatry just as a crude force law. The threat of idolatry is that bad, it destroys societies, because it destroys the minds of the people.
Idolatry creates a fake world in the minds of the people, where they can remain apathic because magical creatures will solve their problems. I have not yes solved this problem yet, of how to deal with idolatry and the freedom necessary to have a peaceful non-repressive society. This is incidentally one of the great problems in the history of the Netherlands, although in a slightly different form, but still against the Catholics (Protestants versus Catholicism versus the Republicans or Humanistic more easy going people).
You are not a serf, because our forefathers faught against Catholicism, and now you don’t even know it. Even Rome itself has a sort of Republic again, as do most other Nations. If you want to know more about how Catholicism was formed by the Roman Empire (the Flavian dynasty, Josephus a captured and then treasonous General in the army of Israel, and centuries later how this was reworked by the Roman Emperor who also created the feudal system), look for “Ceasars Messiah” (it is a book and also on youtube with documentaries).
I think that people who believe in Jesus, will thereby seriously lower their chance of entering exactly that which their religion promises them. Their idolatry ruins their minds, makes them guilty of the resulting apathy, it stunts their political development into mature citizens who are capable of living in a free society with land and political power for all. As such this discussion is beautiful, because Catholicism once again comes out in the ring for fraud and ignorance, thereby proving it is incapable of being part of a peaceful and just society.
The Roman Empire destroyed Mozes law, and pretended to have made it obsolete. The Torah and the Jesus fraud system are opposites, and if that is not true in the minds of many common Jesus believers, that is where the Catholic church lost the fight to the protestants, because now the people can themselves read the Torah and see some of its good law. Even that is the result of the war against Catholicism. This is the only way I see how there could be something like “Distributism” associated with Jesus idolators. In case you didn’t know: Catholics are not supposed to read the Torah, another flagrant violation of the law of Mozes (of course). If you see modern Catholics do it or being allowed to, that is the result of the war against Catholicism, and of the Vatican loosing its grip on power.
I resent the way how you are associating the evil of Catholicism, with something so essential and good as “Distributism.” However as far as the game of good versus evil, it could be seen as another master stroke of the snakes at the Vatican. It creates hatred for just that what will save the people, while at the same time Catholicism will never support Distributism in its true meaning; not even close, as you may have indirectly admitted by your writing in favor of the jesus system (although you seem to carefully avoid making a statement about where you stand personally). This should be a discussion about the details and consequences of land distribution for all, and now the Catholic front has managed to derail what should have been, once again.
The struggle against Catholicism and idolatry in general is an eternal struggle. It will never stop. This planet will never see lasting peace, so long as the idolatry continues. The ignorance and apathy it breeds is all the criminal element needs to flourish. Is this why these tyrannical cultures of the past always create their own version of idolatry to begin with ?
This is one more reason why I probably should start to make an exception in my proposed Constitution for idolatry, so that we have brute force law against Catholicism. All political thinking is then free, but it will be forbidden to (openly) worship idols. We will then organize mass repression of Catholicism, and perhaps all Jesus fraud religion in general (if I could). If you want to worship something, to sing the praises of God and heaven, then worship the One who deserves it, which is the Creator of everything – even if it is beyond our human understanding to know almost anything – and not your silly magic super man idols like Jesus or Spiderman or whatever nonsense created by the tyrants of the past.
I will seriously start thinking about how this would work, to have a free society, yet a prohibition against idolatry. For one this require a very large majority who is already not idolators, or who are willing to give up their vices such as worshipping Jesus. At least the Muslems and Jewish people do not worship idols, so that is quite a lot of people there, and a lot of western people also do not care about these idols from the past. Maybe there is some hope then, for the non-Catholic Nations at least. I see no hope for Catholic Nations, and probably neither for Bhuddist ones because it is a similar apathy and idol worship being preached. Hinduism also seems to be thoroughly hopeless. Those Nations will have generations of self cleaning to do before there is much hope for their societies, it seems to me. They might never even succeed at it, until they are destroyed.
My first thought about adding as an afterthought to the system a prohibition on idolatry, is that it is probably a good thing anyway, because idolators will make a mess of Distributism one way or the other. Hence, why even bother. If people cannot handle a prohibition against idolatry, they cannot live in a free and peaceful society with a very strong democracy under law as I propose. They lack the maturity for it. This might be a good divider between better non-idolatrous people and lesser people who have polluted and stunted themselves with their idol worship, so that it also can help drive a division into separate Sovereignties – just as it did in 1566 when the Catholics went south and the anti-Catholics went north, and then a border was drawn and our forefathers won the war. If that is what it takes, let’s have it.
First published: link
Implementing a prohibition on idolatry
self critique
First it seems useful to consider if this is alien to the Constitution as proposed, or follows the same logic. If it does not follow the same concepts as the Constitution, it will have to be considered that adding this prohibition could be caused by personal ranting and raving by the author, personal preferences, or even unpleasant lusts for tyranny, domination, etc. Even if the logic does match, this aspect will still have to be considered carefully.
Keep also in mind that this Constitution is a proposal in draft form, and that every aspect is supposed to be ratified. The ratification process proposed here is not a simple or short one, but goes through several stages from broader principles to detailed laws, and then amendments and anything other, within the already ratified protocols for changing / detailing the Constitution.
when in the ratification sequence
A prohibition on idolatry could be added as a regular Constitutional change proposal, after everything has been ratified, or even after yet other changes have been ratified (such as laws proposed by others). The benefit is that a change of the Constitution must take 5 years, giving hardened idolators time to see the change coming, and to mobilize against it if they want, or to leave.
where in the ideological system
Since it breaks the principle that anyone can belief whatever they want, it has to be added as an exception to that article in the Constitution. Otherwise it will be void. It will more or less have to say something like “_2.1.B-2 It is forbidden to engage in public worship practices of an idol, be it a statue, painting or other representation of a real or imagined limited creature.”
_2.1.b Free speech People have the right to express any opinion they want. _2.1.b-1 No insult People have a right not to be repeatedly, apparently directly, apparently purposefully insulted in public areas, in a difficult way to escape.
Funny how it seems that this would include the Creator as someone who may not be insulted, as per 2.1.b-1.
how to enforce
All law requires enforcement. If it does not, it does not have to be a law, while if it is not enforced, it will become a dead and ignored law. No law is needed to force people to breathe, and no law will be possible to prevent people breathing. In the Dutch system: when a law is not enforced and not followed, so that the common people are not even aware anymore that this law exists, it cannot be enforced anymore either. It would require something special to start enforcing it again, such as alerting everyone that this law will again become enforced. This seems to be a reasonable and good system.
Enforced consequences for idolatry has historically ranged from idolators being given all the power in society and people who refused to commit idolatry where tortured to death, to the other way around where the idolators where put to death instead. In some modern systems certain idolators are taxed (Islam).
In the case of this Constitution, which is extremely democratic on all levels, to ratify it there will already have to be a majority in favor of the prohibition. The behavior of the idolators is usually not as criminal as it sometimes has been (such as doing child sacrifices to their idols, but in such cases these criminals would of course be taken for murder primarely), hence no immediate war to the death might be morally necessary.
Secondly: the idolators have the chance to create a new Nation out of the existing one. Something like that has happened before, although not so cleanly by protocol as proposed here (rather it happened by war). It seems to generally be a good idea if two hardened camps split, as it releases pressure on both camps if they can live their own way without much of the others their unwanted influence. Some people will be faster in their development, and others might be more regressive and slower with their idolatry, but one can always hope that the idolators will eventually see the absurdity of their behavior on their own terms.
Hence it might be an idea to levy a fine on the idolators, to such an extend in perhaps mounting amounts for repeat offenses, that they will want to leave the Nation, or eventually will be forced to by poverty. However it seems unpleasant to create a refugee stream to another place, who are piping hot with anger, ready to start tearing people up and start a war with us.
Since they did work for the money they are forced pay in fines, and the problem is solved once they migrate (also the problem of them infecting their children with their idolatry, which is mainly how it spreads and continues), one could say that they have earned something by leaving. They did their job, by leaving. Doing a job normally deserves payment. Leaving a Nation where your family have lived for generations is not pleasant. Hence it seems like a fun system to then give them back the worth of the sum that they have payed in fines. The fines turn into a sort of a piggy bank for them, a reward for leaving. With the money, they can finance their move. We can not be accused of stealing from them.
There will be some costs associated with making them pay the fines, which could be substantial costs of law enforcement. How this should be dealt with are details beyond the scope of this article (it does not matter that much).
What is a reasonable time to try to force idolators out, which implies how high the fines should be ? To reduce anger it should not be too high to force people out in weeks or even years. To make sure the Nation stops doing idolatry so that we can have a democracy and a mature population of adults keeping things going properly, it should not be too low which would allow the idolators to stay indefinitely. If the fine is low at first, idolators will likely start saving quite a bit of money. If it later increases to unsustainable amounts, they are forced out. It gives them more time, reducing social pressure, and they might have a greater saved sum almost like a reward. One can also think of a period where all fines will be additionally low, for example on the first generation, and then the fines will go into their normal operating amounts, to reduce the shock on people.
One might notice the entanglement this has with the new territory Referendum system. Idolators will need to be somewhere to make a new Nation, but the protocol for a new Nation takes a century. If idolatry in a region is very high, it makes sense that they should be another Nation, rather than leave. It makes sense that the minority leaves the majority, for simple practicality that it is less overall bother. The fine system may want to accommodate a new Nation starting there. so as not to force those people out prematurely. This could lead to regionally differently enforced idolatry law, in preparation of the National split.
One can naturally think of those people having earned their fines back, at the moment they became a different Sovereign. They are no longer weighing down the Nation with their issues, and that means they have done their job for us. If they then also not start a war for revenge or territory, things have settled down as necessary. Hopefully both Nations can at least be good neighbors.
Consistency with the Constitution
Fact of the matter is that the Constitution as proposed, already contains elements where something is placed above the people for them to be disciplined by. The most obvious is the King Elect, against whom they may not even speak (when in function) unless specifically allowed to by the King. This system is to deal with unruly, chaotic and childish individuals, Nations and masses, not so much as to repress them into order, but so as to attempt to force them to respect at least one thing in their lives. If they have learned to respect one thing, soon they might respect their neighbor, and the one speaking in a Council, so that they may listen to what the other person is saying and then to participate as adults in the discussion on their own or other peoples behalf. It is about raising people, like raising children, in a similar manner with adequate punishments and rewards, neither too excessive.
The whole system of the organized State itself, has a disciplinary element to it. It is a hierarchy of responsibility or power, even while it comes up from the base. It goes to a point (or where possible, to a Council), and then outwards again, where it becomes a top down disciplinary element, especially against those who want to go against the commonly decided law.
Within the economy this element is represented both by the entrepreneurial business if the starter decides to run this business under his own command (which is certainly allowed and good in this system), and by the more dictatorial democratic modes for co-operative businesses (such as the “Boss Elect” mode B). These modes where not provided for no reason, and neither was the idea to ratify the company charter at the National court system whereby it becomes public law (!). How that particular company governs itself, becomes general public law. This is not playing games, these people are not Sovereign as a clique, not even among themselves about issues regarding the company. They have a form of Charter in its own right, which they can create and propose, but then must follow and are held to by outside force. Rather than repress them however, this gives an individual a power if a group refuses to suddenly follow the rules they agreed to themselves. It also gives outsiders the tools to know what they are exactly dealing with, and the ability to enforce that if necessary. It gives clarity and structure, where people are too often likely to be childish, chaotic, overly emotional, greedy or otherwise ill behaved. It gives structure and discipline, something to be forced to respect.
Within the framework of this logic, a prohibition on idolatry could be implemented. The negative impact on the economy or State is likely minimal. This is not even an economic or political topic. It changes the text of the hymns people sing or listen to. This would be quite inconsequential.
Does it breach the idea that there should not be a revolution in taste (there is a void chapter in the book ‘Distribute Power’ by this title). It might be construed to be a change in style or taste, to a degree. In another sense, it is hardly an overhaul of what people like in terms of houses, clothes or other. It could impact statues and paintings, especially if they are worshiped.
It is mentioned somewhere that it seems best to first have the whole Constitution implemented in Nations as they exist with their borders, and only then start any Nation Splitting as necessary. The reason is that Nation Splitting has a high likelihood of being emotionally difficult, with hysteria on all sides. First the program stabilizes the principles and democracy (de-jure stabilization, but likely de-facto destabilization until things have time to settle), and only then becomes more likely to be able to handle a Nation Splitting (which in any case, would only after ratification of the proposed Constitution become law). The Nation splitting also takes a long time. If this idea of forbidding idolatry is implemented at the end of the Constitutional ratification processes, it fits with this leading into potential Nation splitting. Some parts could choose idolatry (or lying that their idols are not idols, which is more fashionable with certain idolatrous religions such as the Jesus system), and other parts could choose against idolatry. Hence this element would fit there in the system.
Freedom of speech vs Freedom of assembly
Democracy is always difficult, because the question is: are people smart and social enough for it. Taking idolatry as a mark of problems, and rejection of idolatry as a sign that maybe here are some more capable people, the system of driving out the idolaters out of certain Nations, while the idolaters will probably reply with driving out the anti-idolaters from their places, can then be seen as a splitting of peoples into a less capable and more capable part, where the more capable part belongs to this democratic Constitution. Since it is apparently so difficult for people to have a democracy, it seems probably a good idea to have at least one element in the whole process where the more confused and less confused divide. The more confused can then live their own way without being a weight around the neck of the more caring people, who care more for the truth.
Some people will of course call who is confused or not the other way around, but that is more or less the problem. Rational debate is just not possible with many people, perhaps most. Therefore a democracy is not possible with them. With this law of forbidding idolatry, we have at least one element where the better ones get selected to then have some chance to make a democratic society happen. I think it means nothing if the new Nation is much smaller, it is even a good thing if it is small. Quality matters more than quantity. Over the centuries and millennia, quality matters over quantity. It is a matter of keep going once something good is established.
It is noted somewhere in this system, that there is an unresolved potential conflict between the freedom to assemble and freedom of speech, because you may want to assemble exclusively with people who do not engage in certain expressions. You may want to assemble only with people of your political color, or your style in gardening for that matter, or only people who want to engage in one particular activity. This is perfectly normal. On a national scale however, the consequences become more serious for people who do not want to be part of something. If people want to assemble to have a democratic open and free State, it becomes impossible when most people living there want a tyranny. It also becomes impossible if most people are so disinterested in what is going on with the governing of the State that those running the State can almost do whatever they want. A small active democratic group of people will become ignored.
The active democratic group would have to assemble to form their own Nation, and thereby need to find some sort of way to remove people who are disinterested in politics or otherwise ill suited from that Nation, or they will suffer the same in the new Nation again. Perhaps one could say that this measure to forbid idolatry is precisely. It removes irrational and disinterested people, who mostly obsess about their “relationship” with their idol, while the world around them suffers the consequences of populations who do not care what their Governments are doing.
Levels of idolatry
Like with so many things in law, breaches of a law occur in levels of severity. One can for example put a higher fine on people who worship statues and paintings directly, and a lesser fine on people who worship figments of their own imagination that they describe in text only (or vice versa, whatever seems to be the most damaging form of idolatry).
One could also view idolatry as financial fraud by deception, and enforce it as such. If some supposed spokesperson suggests people to give money and then their idol will help them, one could view this as a service contract. If the service is not delivered, the person having taken the money is liable as a fraudster. This becomes problematic when idolator cults play their great trick: pretending to rule life after death. It is also hard to enforce when the victim willingly participates in the meaningless service contracts, the service for which may not be delivered. Another complication is if people do give charity for an actual good cause, and real good things are happening because of it. The whole matter is quite difficult, it seems. The idolator systems come with a lot of tricks they learned over the centuries.
One could view idolatry also as a form of copyright or authorship violation, because persons are claiming that something they manufactured has created everything, or rules it (while in fact, they rule their fraudulent creation, and thus they rule). It is a lie to claim to have made something, that you haven’t made, or (possibly worse) that someone you have manufactured (the idol), has then gone on to create everything.
Perhaps one could also put fines on indoctrinating children into idolatry, since that is where it all starts. In a sense, here is the real crime of idolatry, because children are defenseless and copy automatically everything their parents (especially) do. This is where the person doing idolatry is not merely hurting himself, but someone else, typically damaging the targeted person for the rest of their life. This will be rather severe to enforce enforce in practice, as an isolated crime indoctrination of children into severely fraudulent and damaging beliefs and practices. The police can not be present when this happens, it is simply not practical. Hence in order to prevent this (the real) crime, idolatry may be easier to enforce against generally.
It will depend on the level of idolatry in a Nation, to see what can be enforced, and how it should be enforced and graduated in its punishments. Certain levels of enforcement are likely going to create widespread rioting or even a civil war, although the ratification process being democratic should take ample time, and prevent ratification there where otherwise widespread rioting or wars could result. In such cases, ratification may simply not be possible, or only against particular forms of idolatry.
Social implementation
The power of law is often overestimated, while the power of social methods is underestimated (though not by the Roman Empire or modern ruling cliques with their mass psychology media experts and professional advertising agencies). To outlaw something that people are accustomed to, crudely and without replacement for their emotions and social behavior, is begging for them to continue to do it in secret, or to fight for it. A better way is to provide an alternative that is broadly better than what they where doing, or entirely good behavior.
One could quite easily refurbish many of these mad idolatry cults, and redirect them to the Creator. What do these people want in a church, is it singing together ? That can be provided easily. Do they want a cookie or a gulp of wine ? What is wrong with a group of people sharing a meal or a cookie: nothing, indeed it is probably a very good thing. Singing together is a good first way to learn how to speak and listen in a Council, and so is listening to someone talking (which a lot of these religions engage in). Singing is nice anyway. What is being read does not have to pertain to some idol, it can pertain to something else. I do not think it will bother the people almost at all, what is being read or what the text of the songs are, so long as it is cultured and interesting enough. Most people are there for the circus and the event. For example: the law of Mozes has been read countless times in religions, but did these people ever listen to for example the law on distributing the land to all ? They never even heard it. They don’t care what is being written. They are there for the spectacle, being out of the house and to socialize.
Hence it seems better to repurpose things, including buildings, but likely not their idol statues because that seems unrecoverable. This will create more peace (a goal in itself) as compared to harsh repression without replacement even if that goes on a minority. A softer but multi-leveled approach able to sustain itself over centuries has the potential to more securely entrench a non-idolatrous and a more mature population over time, than any amount of sudden law enforcement or brute force could ever do. One could even think that this is how the populations eventually lost sight of the truth, slowly drifting away from what was originally meant, falling into worse and worse idolatry games until they where murdering good people and they where bowed under a thousand years of tyrannical darkness.
Benefits of non-idolatrous religion ?
A benefit is that no one clique can claim to own the Creator as their sock puppet. The Creator is too much everywhere and always. This is what we would be taking away from the idolatry cults as a means to dominate indoctrinated children. In a way, it loosens up things. I am a human, you are a human, we are both creatures. Not one of us has all the special connection with the power behind important aspects of life, or even everything, including life after death, because by existing alone we are already there because of the Creator in some way. Hence it also creates a unity, at least on that most fundamental of aspects: we exist.
Worship of objects as being a representation of the Creator is risky, because many people will simply not comprehend what is going on, even though – as usual – they will pretend to understand just fine (enough people seem to be masters at that). Even if they do, sooner or later when this goes on from generation to generation, the idol becomes its own crazy thing, and the original meaning of things is forgotten.
It is clear enough that humanity is not able to listen to the truth, and typically going every which way into weirder and more absurd beliefs, while pretending to care for peace and justice. When tyranny starts, people would be forced more severely into a certain belief, which is not even promoted here. There is only a prohibition on idolatry, on claiming that some doll is the Creator of everything – which is even a form of insanity to belief that. Everything else is still open, and the nature of ‘The Creator,’ is that it is not tied to one clique of people (although people for sure try and always try to get some kind of money making angle on others, using religion or whatever else they can). One can then say that, because humanity let it get this far, they have asked for a certain measure of severity. They would get it anyway, but much worse (outright tyranny, which already started), and even including idolatry stupidity: the usurpation of all power by a clique of criminals. If people let things get out of hand as much as they do, apparently they need more strictness. This might be a level of strictness that can still be provided, although it is already becoming questionable regarding a democratic system. Then again, it can go to benefit the long term stability of the system if people are prohibited from going as insane as quickly and wildly as they usually do, and by that measure the democratic power spreading society might last longer.
dangers ?
As with all things humans do, there will no doubt be dangers and abuses, one way or the other.
A big danger here is that populations may not even have any idea what ’the Creator’ is supposed to be. For many it might merely be another enemy idol they should rally against. Another danger is that ’the Creator’ will be reshaped into an idol, and then the system will be abused. All these tricks will almost certainly occur.
Historical perspective
The Jesus fraud system came to our forefathers in the form of the domination by the Franks, and also by way of a drugs infiltration using beer (monestaries who made beer). It came in the form of tyranny, it came in the form of mass murder. This is how it came to all people. There was some benefit perhaps though, because it also came with the Torah. Hence there was a crazy belief system without the Torah (law of Mozes), and now there was a new belief system, mostly just as crazy, but now it came with the Torah – which is the good part. The lies continued, and continue. The ignorance continues, the blindness and not listening to each other or caring for the truth continue. Sooner or later, something will break, sooner or later, this society will break – as it has done so many times. Perhaps sooner or later, it should be the end of all the lies, one way or the other.
Our people did not care for the Jesus fraud system, although some probably liked it. It took mass murder to instill it and start the indoctrination cycle which continues to this day. The many centuries of abuse by the Jesus system show how dangerous indoctrination can be, although the Jesus system can of course not be blamed for everything that went wrong.
Perhaps it is not for no reason that the Socialist movement has hated religion, because it was well known how the belief in varying idols and magical solutions that never come cause the wars and labor exploitation to continue. The attempt to stamp out idolatry or organized religion wholesale, may have failed because it was too crude, no alternative was provided, and (ironically) Socialism itself became a religion, complete with monumental idol statues of Marx and Stalin. Maybe there is a better and more thorough way to deal with the problem: not by trying to destroy religion, but by trying to cure it from its ills and lies (such as just about everything the Roman Empire has done).
Irony
The irony of the whole affair with the Jesus fraud system, is that they themselves belief that in the end the truth will prevail, and that all will have to submit to it. Well then, there you go, you have what you asked for, but it is you who must submit, and change your ways. Now that it is not someone else who went wrong, but you, do you still belief ?
If these idolaters want to be in awe of some idol, then there you go: you can be in awe of the Creator (not a trinity, of course, not these glorification of the Royal couple with their child as gods) … problem solved.
Popular reactions
This part of the system will no doubt shock a lot of people, in particular those who usually do not think about anything, and who have a wishy washy emotional attitude and perception of anything, and they never look any further than that. “Democracy ?” …”oh great” is their reaction, but then no followup other than a blank stare. “Peace ?” … “oh great” and a blank stare …. “free land” … “what do I need land for” (short sighted reaction of ignorance and selfishness, typical of a lot of people) … but then if you say “we are going to forbid your religion and your idolatry,” the reaction becomes … “what the hell ?!?!” … if you add “we will try to drive you away with fines” … they will be shocked. Shocked and angry, and they will for the most part be incapable of looking into the reasons, or if their idolatry is perhaps a form of insanity they should be dealing with urgently. It is regrettable that most idolaters never even reach the point where they start wondering what is the truth. They are too busy being caught up in the fantasy world around them and their idol.
If the truth does not matter to people, they cannot maintain a democratic society. Maybe this should then be made into an element around which the whole system sort of pivots. If you care enough to get it right on this issue, maybe there is hope. If you cannot bother about this issue or correct your mistakes, then maybe you cannot be trusted on the endless amounts of issues that will come up in a participatory democracy. People can be put on the spot: here is the deal, can you correct yourself on this issue, or not. If you can, great. If you cannot, maybe those who can should not have to deal with you as part in the system, because too much sand on the machine will cause it to stop.
There will be a lot of people who say “none of this matters, it is merely fun and games, cakes and presents, truth is of no importance, its merely a party every now and again.” Exactly, and that is the problem. You don’t care about the truth, and so you disrespect something that is absolutely critical in a democratic society.
There will be people who claim that their idol is the truth, this that blablablah (what their parents told them). Go do what you want, I merely propose something for ratification, that is all. If you think your idolatrous folly is the truth, I’ll pity you from the sidelines, and hope you will deal with your indoctrination some day (especially if it is this Jesus idol you worship, about which I know more than enough to know what is going on and how it happened; you aren’t fooling me, you are fooling yourself.) The truth is its own cause. Only support for the truth can support a democratic state. Reasonably accurate fact finding, and applying the principles of Justice, are essential, there is no way around it, and there should not be a way around it.
Humanity in general take this long to adapt to the truth ? How long have we been tilling the soil ? It is not funny anymore, and time is up now with the nukes and massive destruction of the biosphere. Time for being weird is over, we are reaching a do or die point.
When in terms of timing
Above it has been argued that this measure could be implemented after the whole ratification process is completed. It seems wise to add a 100 year gap between starting the Referendum to change the Constitution and forbid idolatry, and the last part of the ratification process. The Constitutional ratification process was already a lot of work, therefore it seems wise to let things settle first.
A proposal to forbid idolatry in the future will surely cast its shadow (or light if you prefer) ahead of itself, because especially the hardened and less rational idolaters will start to be at loggerheads with anything at all that is associated with a plan that goes into that direction. Perhaps this to be expected attitude should be embraced, so that the idolaters do not join our movement. This should help raise the quality of our movement.
If the system as proposed here proves to work in the intermediate 100 years – which incidentally is also the time it takes to run the Nation Split protocol, so there is already more than enough to be done in some cases – the system may have gained the right in the eyes of many to forbid idolatry. It is conceivable that many idolaters, who would roll over three generations or so in a century, will have had time to review their position. This is as much time as they need, because of their low level of rationality. These people operate on an extremely slow psychological bases, which probably is due to their beliefs being emotional rather than rational, and emotions are a stronger heavier sort of thing than are thoughts. If thought are leafs in the wind, emotions are more like logs drifting in the river. These do not change direction so quickly. Much of the time these idolaters will fail to change their way their entire life, therefore it helps if the generational changes of the population are part of the time they have to review their problems (which of course they do not admit are their problems, quite to the contrary they tend to think they re great for being idolaters, or more usually because of the fashion today they prefer to redefine their idolatry as being non-idolatry).
The overall timing frame for this whole Reform, Revolution and Constitution program I have guessed to be: it would be successful and on schedule if within 300 years significant parts thereof are implemented in one or a few nations, where it is working and still spreading. A delay of 100 years to implement the anti-idolatry law falls within this sort of thinking. See also the 100 years in the New Nation protocol. This is the sort of timing being used generally in this system. The timing of some of these things can be quite slow, by today’s political standards. The goal is to achieve something, rather than scoop around the shallow levels of society for show.
Personal remarks
I do not like this kind of law, and to a degree it is antithetical to what is proposed here in terms of freedom. On the other hand, freedom does not mean doing whatever you want without consequences. If the system is unstable because of how people behave (not caring about the truth beyond their own petty lives, not acting out in necessary ways to keep the common society in good order, etc), and if the idolatry madness of the masses is a big thing of diversion, false security and even criminal infiltration for them, then perhaps it is worthwhile to think about a law such as this. Personally it would not bother me at all if this law was active, because I do not worship any idols or engage in any mass worship activities whatsoever.
I will admit that it is a personal goal of mine to destroy the Jesus religion entirely from the Earth, if possible, by way of argument and evidence, which I have however never made part of this system until now, in order to interest everyone including the idolaters and not offend them. This objective against idolatry now may color this proposal. I am merely proposing it, you will have to decide on it. It seems to be a fair program the way it is structured. People get their fine money back, and there is just as much chance that the anti-idolaters will be migrating to non-idolatry places, as the other way around, if it came to that extreme. The 100 year delay should be enough to mitigate many issues, especially the potential for chaos either personal or on a large scale. I hope that if the system ends up working very well, and perhaps also thereby the truth about the Jesus fraud system slowly spreads to even the most obsessed believers, or their children and grand children, that everything will hopefully happen a more relaxed and positively than one would imagine with hearing about a program to repress religions.
To any potential idolaters who might want to reach me personally with their propaganda: safe your energy, I know more than enough about the Jesus fraud system, from both sides. It seems foreseeable that precisely on this point there will be the hardest resistance to the program proposed here, which in itself only causes me to resent these idolater systems even more, because all they are fighting for is a doll in their head, while this should be about serious things like soil ownership and Sovereign power. If the opposition to these proposals is hard fought by the idolaters precisely because of the attachment to their idol, that proofs how incapable they are of living in a democratic society. The harder the idolaters fight against these proposals in general in order to save their idol worship, the more motivated one should be to struggle against them and to try to get to a Nation without them, because it is a measure of their political incompetence as responsible, engaged, soil owning, voting and participating civilians.
The overall ideological incompetence and deafness of the populations have driven this proposal, just as the proposal to make the Militia and war system was driven by the same apathetic popular attitude at that time – not just to ideological issues but also the facts of war and Empire going on now – with the foreseeable result that we would again have to deal with tyranny and war on a grand scale on Earth. The system adapts itself this way to the populations that we have, typically in a way of dealing with the worst behaviors it seems. Hopefully no more special rules and systems need to be developed to deal with the vices of the populations. If someone opposes this proposal and argues it well, I will probably agree with them, however at the end of the day we have a vast and disinterested population, who does not bat an eye when a million people get murdered by their Government, and then when there is perhaps one way to cut to a Nation with people who are a little less apathetic, perhaps we should take that chance with both hands, and run with it to see what happens.
Besides having this only ratify or not after 100 years, or whenever it seems suitable if it is demanded generally of course (the delay primarely being a device to grind down resistance over time), it will probably live only here or wherever this bundle of articles might end up, but not be integrated into the book ‘Distribute Power.’
final remarks…
If people have grown up in some idolatry system, never had a problem in it or with it and they went on with it by habit without reviewing the whole system because there where a thousand and one other things to do, then this is more than understandable. This proposal then puts the issue of the truth of this or the other religion on the table, with a debating term of 100 years, where otherwise the issue might have been ignored forever. If people decide after careful review that they want to continue to belief in their religion or idolatry, then they should do so, and things can be adjusted accordingly in those Nations.
It is of course not necessary to absolutely keep to this schedule, there may be good reasons to first split a Nation, and only then proceed with the Constitutional ratification, when it is clear that this will have widely different results in either area. The National split after the whole ratification process, is more meant for the case where the split would be necessary as a precaution because of the size of the Nation being too large, as a more or less routine maintenance effort. If there are severe regional differences or even de-facto splitting of the country due to political pressures, such a split can be embraced as a job already done, while preventing the future need of changing the ratified Constitution again in either area to reflect the differences.
“Who is delusional”
Someone asked this question (Usenet), in response to this proposal. Reply …
This is precisely the point of forbidding idolatry. These people are delusional, and on top of that they tend to be in favor of a Monarchy.Their idol should be King (compare: “Jesus is King”, “we shall reign a thousand years with ‘christ'”). They want a global Empire under an absolute King. How does that fit with a democracy/Republic under law ? It doesn’t.
Perhaps the question should not be who is delusional, because that is always difficult to argue, and by the time you get to the real arguments and evidence almost everyone has long since left the debating table to waste their time on soccer and beer or whatever. The latter is the point: wasting time. It is about wasting time, and also to want an absolute monarchy.
I (as an example of someone who does not worship Jesus or another home made god) do not waste my time with praying to Jesus, or thinking I am a cool dude because I worship Jesus and therefore I don’t need to do anything else. Other non-idolators also do not waste their time. It could be argued that you also keep enough time and energy around to argue political matters.
The worst of the idolators waste a lot of time on their hobby, they put all their hope and trust in it, their effort and even their money. Since they have a psychology of worship of some kind of human like imaginary creature (typically): where is their intellectual, social and other efforts to effectuate in the real world and in politics what needs to happen ? Their psychology is one of: everyone should just worship my idol, spend all their time on it, and then it will be great with them. The remove their own human and needed effort from what happens in society and even around them. Rather than sit in a voting group and debate the latest details of what the county did, they go to church and think it will pay out after they die.
The idolators will counter this by saying that by worshipping their idol, whom they have invented to be a good person, even though Jesus wasn’t good or only according to low standards thereof, standards that are too low because he puts himself up as King and god, and offers his blood and meat to be eaten, and then proceeds to set up some kind of doomsday cult where those with assets distribute them in the group because the end is near anyway. The idolators will argue that by worshipping the idol, whom they make out to be a good person, they themselves will be better, and start caring about society, rather than raping, plundering and murdering – which is in the direction of what they would otherwise be doing according to them (otherwise their logic holds no water).
That may be their argument, but I don’t see the evidence. I see people going to church talking about Jesus, while Julian Assange rots away in jail. We have had the terrible middle ages under the Jesus fraud system. The church was an absolute tyranny. It didn’t help. Once our forefathers overthrew this evil jesus church, rather than less the poor and sick suddenly started receiving real help, to such an extend it was a marvel in Europe (according to ‘The Republic’ by Israeli, the 1200 or so pages thick standard work about the history of the Netherlands).
Here we are, we need to restructure our economy, we need to restructure our State, and we need to do so many things, or at least have a lively debate about it. Rather than care, where are they. It is true that you don’t see other people either, and so you can ask: why make the cut at idolatry, and why not at soccer obsession. Good question. I figure it is idolatry which is most precisely a psychological tumor which blocks political activity, because it is precisely nestled on the issue where people either start doing something themselves or merely wait for their magical super man to show up.
Because the idolators have this psychology, it primes them to follow and worship people like Nero, Napoleon, Lenin, Obama and Trump. They have this careless attitude with the truth, and this childish worship of some hero that will save them. This combination cannot be good for a Republic. I wish I didn’t have to make this kind of proposal, but since we are still at a total loss in the political debate, something has to give, doesn’t it. I think the populations have proven that they cannot handle a Republic in their current average behavior, or in their current mix so to say, with their current afflictions (be that soccer or idolatry). It could make an improvement if we split from the idolators, and even if it might not be that much, we need all the benefit we could get, evidently.
We could continue with the idolators, and even if we won the Revolution, the result will likely be the same. The idolators will neglect their political duties, and the Nation would go down in part because of it. They will support demagogues like Hitler again, like they now support Trump. It may be better to aim for a smaller Nation, and a cultural split with childish people who want to worship idols or waste their energy on worship of whatever without doing their duty.
It may be possible to remold the religious instincts of people and direct them at ’the Creator,’ and make something so that we live in a world with certain challenges we need to face up to and solve, and those challenges are also political, the duty to keep the economy and State going correctly, to engage and take care of the commons. That is a task we get, that is the world we live in, which we also help shape. Idolatry imagines a super-man in the mix who will save us, and that is where the people become apathetic I guess. Super man needs to be taken out, and then we are alone with the given challenge, such as stopping the wars, destroying organized crime, and all these other challenges. We have to solve these problems. If people want to sit on the ground and wait for their idol, they can do it somewhere else, but it is a recipe that will ruin a Republic.
